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Brian Edmunds's avatar

I like the observations Jim.

Your view of the rich having too much money to influence those in charge is correct.

Your view that the wealthiest must be taxed more to restrain their influence of those in charge, is commendable.

But those problems in particular show that MMTs version of ‘make more money available because they can’ goes right to the heart of the dilemma.

On the one hand providing ever increasing amounts of more money in the system sounds great! But set that against the fact that the system feeds those rich with more and more money they, by feeding ever increasing amounts into the system now means the rich get even richer!

Jim, in my view trying to educate everyone on a system that’s unnatural to them will not be easy. And to expect governments to change their powers to accommodate such matters is again a difficult position to attain.

I agree we need better thinkers in charge. And for that reason, the average Joe in the street may not be able to be any better. So it’s a quandary.

How far do we go or wait for a new education or a new democracy or a new type of better thinking leader?

It’s all very well to put the wants list out there but, really, is it credible? Is it attainable?

Yes, the world is getting hotter. But what do you think the UK can do about that? As much as we want to put all wrongs right we need a much more simple and unarguable approach to put to the voting public. Based on reason and being reasonable. As clever and interesting MMT is to the likes of us it’s not something that can be sold. On either the politicians or the public. It’s novel! It’s not acceptable. That’s my view.

Just to increase the pot of money when we need cash flow injection is still not going to solve the rich poor problem.

And taxing wealth is as difficult as it sounds simple! How do you value assets that fluctuate? And who is going to do that job. And how much will that cost? All these are to me, reasons to doubt the authors understanding of at tax system let alone our tax system.

To clarify our tax system is based on SPENDING. If there is no SPENDING then no tax is collected. If businesses don’t employ and SPEND on their employees no tax is collected.

Only the SPENDING of individuals and business triggers tax.

Income tax and Nic is triggered when a business SPENDS on their employees wages by employers. From, I might add, the SPENDING of all us, individuals and business who, pay into that business that’s SPENDING on those businesses.

Vat and duty are collected from the SPENDING of individuals and business. Again the trigger is SPENDING.

Other taxes are based on an instruction to SPEND. For example Council Tax. A pre determined value is placed on the asset and is multiplied by individuals in that home (asset).

Same with business rates. Except it’s multiplied by square feet.

But both instruct a SPEND. For tax take.

Similarly stamp duty is based on a SPEND. Even windfall taxes are based on the fact that excessive amounts of SPENDING has occurred for the exchequer to take back a slice.

When we die and our estate SPENDS the money a tax is triggered. When we SPEND and buy a car Vat tax is triggered. And vehicle excise duty is triggered from that SPENDING. Also, insurance tax is also triggered from that SPENDING.

So Jim, all tax is a result of SPENDING.

That’s why the rich get richer! Because they don’t SPEND. And so pay no tax on that unspent money. And as I say, they don’t have to SPEND money nobody does! And not SPENDING means no tax revenue.

So take that twin effect of no tax and no enforced SPENDING and put that to the people as isn’t it more convincing that, our present problems are more likely to be as a direct result of both those inadequacies of our system? Or at least it’s easier to sell??

Surely, it’s much more simple to convince politicians and public alike that it’s money that needs to be SPENT to give us all cash flow and thus give the tax revenue or government so desperately needs??

That’s my opinion Jim! Tell that theory! Keep telling that’s the way to get the economy flowing! SPENDING because Jim, unless there is SPENDING of more of the money already out there in a faster time than now then, no economy, let alone ours can or will survive. Even MMT needs SPENDING Jim. That’s the kicker really. Without more SPENDING of the vast sums already out there then, nothing will or can grow. I see no reason why the system we have now or MMT is doing or making that happen!?

We are in recession not because we need more money in the pot. We just need the money already in it to be moving in a larger amount and in a quicker time!

That’s surely a lot more simple than the MMT view. Even though, I love its viewpoint. I love that it barks at the present thinking. And is so obtuse it’s a beautiful thing! But I must bring you back to a more simple truth to sell. So much so that even the present incumbents could and should understand even with their limited abilities!

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